Public Punishment Events

[MyDogBitz]

I had to take my pup to the vet tonight for a surprise visit. He scratched his eye pretty good, and I have no idea how. (He's fine) Anyway, he's generally pretty good at the vets office. A bit excitable but nothing crazy.

Anyway, as the vet started the initial examination, Bomber growled and rolled his lip. I punished this immediately. "NO" leash pop. "NO" leash pop. "DO NOT DO THAT" leash pop. "Bad" two finger wrap on the nose. He immediately straightened up.

He was as well behaved as could be expected for the rest of the ordeal (he needed his eye flushed and wasn't happy about it but he was fine.) He was also social and happy with the vet afterwards. When we got home I reconciled with him and its a total non-event.

Don't be bashful. A fair and contingent punishment can be one of the best things you could ever do for your dog. Aggression to handling that I deem necessary is a zero tolerance issue in my book.

I am open to reasonable opinions on why you might be against punishment in this scenario, punishment for detrimental behavior, or just punishment in general.

 

[Andre]

I’m glad to hear Bomber’s okay and that it was nothing major.

Sometimes dogs just need a reminder about manners, especially younger ones. It’s no different than reminding a kid not to talk back to their teacher.

You handled it well, your actions were clear and he understood the message.

How did the vet react? I’ve seen so many people misinterpret simple dog corrections in a negative way.

 

[MyDogBitz]

I’m glad to hear Bomber’s okay and that it was nothing major.

Sometimes dogs just need a reminder about manners, especially younger ones. It’s no different than reminding a kid not to talk back to their teacher.

You handled it well, your actions were clear and he understood the message.

How did the vet react? I’ve seen so many people misinterpret simple dog corrections in a negative way.

The vet is cool. Good people. Everyone was like "Bomber's in trouble." LOL.

 

[oink]

I think it depends on the core reasons for my dog growling. I'm also always concerned that if I punish any warning signs, that next time they will escalate without the warning.

Did my dog interpret the correction as "ok fine, mom is the boss here and I can trust her", or was it interpreted as "I can't growl so next time I'll just be quiet and then do what I have to do"?

To be clear I don't have any criticism for your scenario. Bomber clearly took it well and it was a non issue. I think a well adjusted dog like Bomber there's no issues, but for a nervous dog that is very overwhelmed, like mine, any corrections would likely just further her confusion and fear.

She's never growled at the vet though. Just very fearful after a traumatic ER event and tries to get away. As long as I'm the one restraining her she can be cooperative for blood draws and needles. She also has no issue with the vet checking her teeth.

 

[MyDogBitz]

I think it depends on the core reasons for my dog growling. I'm also always concerned that if I punish any warning signs, that next time they will escalate without the warning.

Did my dog interpret the correction as "ok fine, mom is the boss here and I can trust her", or was it interpreted as "I can't growl so next time I'll just be quiet and then do what I have to do"?

To be clear I don't have any criticism for your scenario. Bomber clearly took it well and it was a non issue. I think a well adjusted dog like Bomber there's no issues, but for a nervous dog that is very overwhelmed, like mine, any corrections would likely just further her confusion and fear.

She's never growled at the vet though. Just very fearful after a traumatic ER event and tries to get away. As long as I'm the one restraining her she can be cooperative for blood draws and needles. She also has no issue with the vet checking her teeth.

Generally speaking, I think people tend to anthropomorphize dogs especially when it comes to punishment. (Not you in particular but speaking broadly.)

Punishment is a normal, regular occurrence that happens almost immediately in the whelping box. Dogs understand punishment when it's contingent, contextual, and fair.

There's also a lot of words that people like to use to describe the possible outcomes of punishment, fallout, superstitious association, and relationship damage.

There's this weird knee-jerk reaction to assume that these outcomes are the only possibility, which simply isnt the case. BUT, there is a reason people experience these things IMO:

1) No communication established with the dog.

2) The punishment isn't fair, contextual or contingent.

3) The human is overly emotional in their delivery AND the dog has never be taught what punishment is.

Of course this creates problems. But so does shoving food in a reactive dogs face, forcing them to have unwarranted interactions with strange dogs or people, dragging them around by a poorly fitted training collar and so on. I would bet these cause far more problems then proper punishment but I digress.

My dog has a conditioned punishment marker. If he hears "NO" he immediately understands what it means AND that there's a punishment incoming. This has been taught through consistency, fairness and with contingency. My dog has never been punished without a "second chance" meaning, being put right back into the situation and shown what to do.

Two more points I think are important:

1) I believe a lot of people associate punishment with some heavy handed physical adversive. The adversive only needs to be enough to stop the unwanted behavior. When punishment has been taught properly, there's no need to pop the leash like you're starting a lawnmower - the dog will understand it.

2) What type of dog are you dealing with and what are you punishing? In my case, I have an extremely confident and outgoing dog with a high level of training. Moreover, the situation and environment wasn't new to him. In that context the punishment made sense. If he was fearful, shy, introverted, prone to fear-aggression, stranger danger, or in a brand new situation I might not have punished him for the growl - probably would have ignored it TBH.

It's a really cool conversation that should be had between reasonable people. I knew it would drum up some difference of opinions which is why I brought it up.