The Four Quadrants of Operant Conditioning and What They Mean For You and Your Pup: Part I

Kaia Murphy said:
Haha I’d be the same way honestly, I get nervous even thinking about off-leash. It’s shocking how much trust that takes.

That makes sense about the leash work though, especially with the size difference between your two pups. I didn’t realize how early people start introducing leash pressure.
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Lets not even talk about all the opossums murph has happily brought to me as a trophy... (they all lived)
 
Kaia Murphy said:
That actually makes so much sense the way you broke it down, I didn’t realize how much of it was about teaching the dog what the pressure means before really applying it in training. I like how structured that process is.

So even when they’re super young, it’s more about exposure and management than “training” right? And when you say you pair the e-collar to the prong, do you mean the dog already understands the pressure language, so the stim just becomes another version of that same cue?

This is really interesting to read through, it helps me understand how those early steps tie into loose leash walking later on.
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Yeah. Teaching dogs how to do things is actually pretty easy IMO. But obedience is absolutely useless if you have behavioral issues and poorly adjusted dogs.

You will get way further with your dog if you spend the little puppy time getting them proper environmental exposure, showing them what's expected in the house and getting them used to being crated, handling, grooming and appropriate sleep, meal, and bathroom schedules.

As for the e-collar, you nailed it. Pressure is pressure. Whether it's the prong collar, choke chain, spacial, or e-collar it doesn't really matter. I just want a dog who understands that pressure isn't bad, it just is. And that they're in total control of turning it on and off.

Once that happens, the e-collar can be used as a gas pedal or a brake.

Something I learned from Michael Ellis is, spend the time teaching the dog the skills they'll need to learn how to learn and everything else comes together rather quickly.
 
MyDogBitz said:
Yeah. Teaching dogs how to do things is actually pretty easy IMO. But obedience is absolutely useless if you have behavioral issues and poorly adjusted dogs.

You will get way further with your dog if you spend the little puppy time getting them proper environmental exposure, showing them what's expected in the house and getting them used to being crated, handling, grooming and appropriate sleep, meal, and bathroom schedules.

As for the e-collar, you nailed it. Pressure is pressure. Whether it's the prong collar, choke chain, spacial, or e-collar it doesn't really matter. I just want a dog who understands that pressure isn't bad, it just is. And that they're in total control of turning it on and off.

Once that happens, the e-collar can be used as a gas pedal or a brake.

Something I learned from Michael Ellis is, spend the time teaching the dog the skills they'll need to learn how to learn and everything else comes together rather quickly.
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For high drive dogs, if you teach the ecollar correctly, stimulation will refocus their attention on you so you can do a reset and use a command after.

R+ trainers assume we are using ecollars as punishment to force the dog to do something, but using an eollar correctly is about redirection after training and understanding is already established. You nailed it.

Dear R+ trainers, i still use treats and praise, fucking duh.
 
Kaia Murphy said:
That actually makes so much sense the way you broke it down, I didn’t realize how much of it was about teaching the dog what the pressure means before really applying it in training. I like how structured that process is.

So even when they’re super young, it’s more about exposure and management than “training” right? And when you say you pair the e-collar to the prong, do you mean the dog already understands the pressure language, so the stim just becomes another version of that same cue?

This is really interesting to read through, it helps me understand how those early steps tie into loose leash walking later on.
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Remember that exposure and management is still training. When you realize every interaction with your dog is teaching them what behaviors you will accept and which ones you wont, it will completely change your relationship and communication with your dog.
 
MyDogBitz said:
Yeah. Teaching dogs how to do things is actually pretty easy IMO. But obedience is absolutely useless if you have behavioral issues and poorly adjusted dogs.

You will get way further with your dog if you spend the little puppy time getting them proper environmental exposure, showing them what's expected in the house and getting them used to being crated, handling, grooming and appropriate sleep, meal, and bathroom schedules.

As for the e-collar, you nailed it. Pressure is pressure. Whether it's the prong collar, choke chain, spacial, or e-collar it doesn't really matter. I just want a dog who understands that pressure isn't bad, it just is. And that they're in total control of turning it on and off.

Once that happens, the e-collar can be used as a gas pedal or a brake.

Something I learned from Michael Ellis is, spend the time teaching the dog the skills they'll need to learn how to learn and everything else comes together rather quickly.
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Are you a professional trainer?
 
murph said:
No wonder you don't wanna train my dog 😭😭😭
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Funny. You know, I've helped some people with what little knowledge I have and the thing that really turned me off wasn't the dogs, it was the people. Not listening, not following through, reverting back to old habits, things like this really annoyed me.

That being said, t's something I'm thinking about doing in the future full time.
 
MyDogBitz said:
Funny. You know, I've helped some people with what little knowledge I have and the thing that really turned me off wasn't the dogs, it was the people. Not listening, not following through, reverting back to old habits, things like this really annoyed me.

That being said, t's something I'm thinking about doing in the future full time.
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I'm warning you, it never gets better.
 
murph said:
Disclaimer: This post is intended to be a neutral informational on operant conditioning. If you find any errors in this post, please let me know. Thank you.

Operant conditioning as a psychological subject was created by Edward Thorndike. He theorised a “law of effect” that states behaviors are a result of consequences, whether that be rewarding or discomforting.

The meaning of positive and negative

In the context of Operant Conditioning, positive means to add something. Negative means to take something away.

Defining Reinforcement and Punishment

Reinforcement is a consequence that makes a behavior occur more often.

Punishment is a consequence that makes a behavior occur less often.

Quick Recap
Positive and negative refer to whether a stimulus was added or removed.

Reinforcement and punishment refer to the future frequency of the behavior.

Reinforcement describes a consequence that makes a behavior occur more often in the future. Punishment is a consequence that makes a behavior occur less often.

What is shaping behavior?

In the service dog community there is a saying: slow is fast.

This is a reference to shaping behaviors in dogs. Shaping behaviors is the act of reinforcing or punishing approximations of a behavior to achieve the eventual desired behavior.

Operant conditioning shapes voluntary behaviors through their consequences. Actions followed by rewards tend to be repeated, while those followed by negative outcomes diminish.

What is extinction?

Extinction occurs when a previously reinforced behavior is no longer reinforced. During extinction the behavior becomes less probable.

Common training methods use variable rewards to stave off extinction. If the dog does not know when the reinforcement or punishment will come, the behavior is better reinforced than by reinforcing the behavior at every opportunity.

Positive Reinforcement

Positive Reinforcement is possibly the most common and well known method in dog training. It is generally accepted by evidence based dog training as the best way to train a dog.

Examples of Positive Reinforcement:
  • Giving your dog a treat when they complete a command.
  • Giving your dog praise when they potty outside
When can Positive Reinforcement produce undesirable results?

Because Positive Reinforcement involves adding something that is pleasurable, the are times where this can result in undesirable behaviors.

Examples:
  • Your dog jumps on the counter and takes a bite of your lunch. They then learn that by counter surfing, they get food.
  • Your dog jumps on a visitor at the dog and the dog is petted or engaged by the visitor. The dog will associate jumping with greeting others.
Positive Punishment
Examples of Positive Punishment
  • Your dog barks inappropriately and you respond with a firm “No.”
  • Your dog runs into the woods and gets sprayed by a skunk. Later, your dog avoids all skunks.
Negative Reinforcement
Examples of Negative Reinforcement
  • Pulling up on a choke chain during a walk to make the dog stop pulling. (This example can also be applied to slip chains and martingale collars)
  • Using stimulation on an electronic collar when your dog preforms an undesirable behavior.
  • Holding stimulation on an electronic collar until the dog preforms the desired command.
Negative Punishment
Examples of Negative Punishment
  • Your dog nips at your feet during a play session and you disengage from play
  • Your dog nips at your hand during feeding time and you take the bowl away.
In my experience, this type of reinforcement, while effective, requires the handler to he steadfast to ensure extinction of the undesirable behavior.

This post is a lot longer than I anticipated, so I am going to make this a two parter. My next post will be on Training Styles associated with these training strategies, as well as learning thresholds.

Thanks for reading!
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Great post! Thank you for continuing to take the time to write out these detailed posts! Having it actually written out helps even if I’ve heard it before because they are excellent reminders. I also LOVE the examples! I think balanced training using all 4 quads is the way to go with dog training!
 
murph said:
Negative Reinforcement
Examples of Negative Reinforcement
  • Pulling up on a choke chain during a walk to make the dog stop pulling. (This example can also be applied to slip chains and martingale collars)
  • Using stimulation on an electronic collar when your dog preforms an undesirable behavior.
  • Holding stimulation on an electronic collar until the dog preforms the desired command.
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Are the first two examples positive punishment?

You're adding a sensation/stimulation to decrease a behaviour?

The third one is removing the stimulus to increase the behaviour. So that one I can see as negative reinforcement.
 
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